Alternative fuels gaining ground with consumers

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Thursday, November 20, 2008 2:47:10 AM

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Alternative fuels gaining ground with consumers Tuesday, September 30, 2008
The Vancouver Sun -- The rubber just hit the road on British Columbia's "hydrogen highway." The first of a fleet of buses powered by hydrogen fuel cells -- part of a multimillion-dollar industry-government partnership -- was road-tested in Victoria in September. The entire fleet of 20 buses will be showcased at the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Hydrogen is one of a number of alternative fuels used to power engines. Others include biodiesel, ethanol, methanol (a gas formed from hydrogen and carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide), natural gas and propane.
Visit The Vancouver Sun for full article

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	Tuesday, September 30, 2008 The Vancouver Sun -- The rubber just hit the road on British Columbia's "hydrogen highway." The first of a fleet of buses powered by hydrogen fuel cells -- part of a multimillion-dollar industry-government partnership -- was road-tested in Victoria in September. The entire fleet of 20 buses will be showcased at the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Hydrogen is one of a number of alternative fuels used to power engines. Others include biodiesel, ethanol, methanol (a gas formed from hydrogen and carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide), natural gas and propane. Visit The Vancouver Sun for full article

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Don1222 Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,033 Points:118,655 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 10/2/2008 7:28:03 AM	Ignore Don1222 Report Abuse
	kingdick: Nixon encouraged the use of ethanol for fuel. Anyone could get a license ( for free ) to produce ethanol for the use of fuel. When Carter became president the cost of the license went to $500. Regardless of what you believe about ethanol for a fuel, it is an alternative to gasoline.
magnumCA Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,332 Points:259,975 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 6:29:48 PM	Ignore magnumCA Report Abuse
	good
jeteye Veteran Author Austin Posts:424 Points:115,930 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 2:01:24 PM	Ignore jeteye Report Abuse
	Old news!
kingdick Champion Author Minnesota Posts:19,390 Points:1,527,895 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 11:17:10 AM	Ignore kingdick Report Abuse
	Don1222 Michigan Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:49:05 AM "President Richard Nixon started the alternative fuel in the early 1970es. Since than nothing has been done about it until recently." Not alternative fuel. From his 1974 State of the Union address. United States should “not be dependent on any other country for the energy we need to provide our jobs, to heat our homes, and to keep our transportation moving.” TALK ?
kingdick Champion Author Minnesota Posts:19,390 Points:1,527,895 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 11:10:36 AM	Ignore kingdick Report Abuse
	‘Energy Independence’ is neither practical nor desirable. "The 1973 Arab oil embargo did not cause lines at U.S. gas pumps; Nixon’s price controls did. Iran has never had a problem finding a market for its oil, despite U.S. attempts to isolate the Islamic Republic since 1979." From Robert Bryce's book "Gusher of Lies" "There’s just one problem, says Robert Bryce: “Energy independence is hogwash.” In his new book, Gusher of Lies (PublicAffairs), Bryce challenges the notion that America can ever be totally “independent” of the global energy market." -Read the review-
kingdick Champion Author Minnesota Posts:19,390 Points:1,527,895 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:54:09 AM	Ignore kingdick Report Abuse
	----------------------------------- Right now most hydrogen is extracted from natural gas and costs MORE than Diesel or Gas for equal energy output !! -----------------------------------
Don1222 Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,033 Points:118,655 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:49:05 AM	Ignore Don1222 Report Abuse
	President Richard Nixon started the alternative fuel in the early 1970es. Since than nothing has been done about it until recently.
Prodaddy Champion Author Houston Posts:1,458 Points:444,120 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:44:32 AM	Ignore Prodaddy Report Abuse
	And the beat rolls on ....
kingdick Champion Author Minnesota Posts:19,390 Points:1,527,895 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:43:37 AM	Ignore kingdick Report Abuse
	----------------------------------- If several of the energy regulations that Jimmy Carter put in place were not rescinded by Ronald Regan we would not be in as Great an Energy tite spot now. ----------------------------------- We are now suffering for Regan's dismantling of the Energy programs started by President Carter ----------------------------------- We are looking at some of the same programs now. They will probably be rescinded when the oil bubble bursts and we forget the strain again. It costs us about $6.50 a barrel to get crude out of the ground in Oaklhoma and the market price that we get is over $95 A markup of $88.50 a barrel profit $2.11 per gallon. All taxes together comes to much less than that. A service station that sells you the gas is lucky to make 6 or 7 Cents a gallon. Nothing comes even close to crude production for markup. The Market speculators sets the price for Crude Oil not us. -----------------------------------
AlaRedNeck Champion Author Kansas Posts:1,167 Points:208,925 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:42:46 AM	Ignore AlaRedNeck Report Abuse
	if you really want to gain ground, make the affordable
Zygnatz Champion Author British Columbia Posts:4,976 Points:977,130 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:41:07 AM	Ignore Zygnatz Report Abuse
	So? I've been reading about this for many decades now. Yaaawn.
wizzard1222 Veteran Author St. Louis Posts:387 Points:703,775 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:39:50 AM	Ignore wizzard1222 Report Abuse
	2nd time to open the barn door! (Congress)
91Acclaim Veteran Author Maryland Posts:355 Points:73,885 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:37:32 AM	Ignore 91Acclaim Report Abuse
	What is the long term cost? Forcing crop prices ultimately up.....
hank1326 All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:500 Points:125,755 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:33:40 AM	Ignore hank1326 Report Abuse
	Ditto to EZexit. Be aggressive with all the energy options now!!
spunky4443 Champion Author Washington Posts:1,151 Points:455,880 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:33:14 AM	Ignore spunky4443 Report Abuse
	Well it will take a few years to see if this is COST Affected.
FawltyPawl All-Star Author North Carolina Posts:719 Points:114,575 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:26:56 AM	Ignore FawltyPawl Report Abuse
	They can alternative all they want, but the demand for oil will continue until the last drop is squeezed from this planet.
chas_commuter All-Star Author South Carolina Posts:570 Points:128,015 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:26:27 AM	Ignore chas_commuter Report Abuse
	As long as they make the fares high enough to self-sustain its operations then great. Just wait until they start increasing taxes to make non-riders pay for it.
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:6,491 Points:1,043,695 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:24:49 AM	Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse
	Does anyone know what the unsubsidizes purchase costs for the fuel cell bus is and what the unsubsidized cost per mile for the hydrogen is? Obviously, costs would improve if volumes would go up but claims for "economy of scale" are often exaggerated. Of all of the alternate fuels mentioned in the article, hydrogen fuel cells are probably the least likely to be economical in the next few years.
Lizzylou Champion Author Stockton Posts:1,447 Points:883,045 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:24:21 AM	Ignore Lizzylou Report Abuse
	This is a good thing to hear!
SeerLV All-Star Author Las Vegas Posts:532 Points:131,040 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:23:56 AM	Ignore SeerLV Report Abuse
	Ethanol from grass is one answer. Electric cars powered by wind/solar/nuclear is another. New technology is another. We will always need oil though so we should drill too.
EZExit Veteran Author Phoenix Posts:309 Points:83,100 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:23:25 AM	Ignore EZExit Report Abuse
	Drill now! Finish hydrogen technology now! In the years to come we'll be glad we did.
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:9,609 Points:718,135 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:21:46 AM	Ignore tomok Report Abuse
	more and many different alternative fuels needed
Kthyme Champion Author Fort Worth Posts:2,664 Points:875,415 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:19:21 AM	Ignore Kthyme Report Abuse
	Drilling is needed...
Matts_Pap Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,272 Points:196,015 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:18:48 AM	Ignore Matts_Pap Report Abuse
	Time will tell.
MajorSteve Veteran Author Oklahoma City Posts:495 Points:236,620 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:18:14 AM	Ignore MajorSteve Report Abuse
	More choices needed.
us412 Champion Author Arkansas Posts:6,302 Points:816,020 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:14:43 AM	Ignore us412 Report Abuse
	"methanol (a gas formed from hydrogen and carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide),"........I thought methanol was a liquid.
rogerparry Champion Author Florida Posts:1,334 Points:290,045 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:13:20 AM	Ignore rogerparry Report Abuse
	Keep the choices coming.
amacquarrie Veteran Author Nevada Posts:328 Points:76,260 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:11:19 AM	Ignore amacquarrie Report Abuse
	alternative fuel - hmmmm
domer2 All-Star Author Gary Posts:867 Points:378,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:09:40 AM	Ignore domer2 Report Abuse
	should be good for us
Mazdaman7Q Champion Author South Carolina Posts:3,731 Points:788,560 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:07:44 AM	Ignore Mazdaman7Q Report Abuse
	good news as long as they don't convert food to fuel
ladyjj Champion Author Tennessee Posts:1,445 Points:160,320 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:07:37 AM	Ignore ladyjj Report Abuse
	Hope this catches on and more do this!
sexymacho Rookie Author Florida Posts:78 Points:90,035 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:07:18 AM	Ignore sexymacho Report Abuse
	Once again, the Canadian Market at work in partnership with the government.
Takmygas Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:2,063 Points:282,780 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:05:15 AM	Ignore Takmygas Report Abuse
	same as what I said last night
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:2,568 Points:541,795 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:05:06 AM	Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse
	Me too.
laddyboy62 Champion Author Riverside Posts:1,576 Points:993,360 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:05:05 AM	Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
	gonna be way to go...along with other measures
bdrviper All-Star Author Grand Rapids Posts:990 Points:711,435 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:03:52 AM	Ignore bdrviper Report Abuse
	ok
TTI2000 Sophomore Author Colorado Springs Posts:125 Points:174,250 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:02:58 AM	Ignore TTI2000 Report Abuse
	Hydrogen fuel cells work and they are an excellent alternative, the problem is the fuel delivery companies don't want to jump into it because they aren't sure it's a long term them. So the actual fuel stations are so rare to see.
krucker All-Star Author Austin Posts:559 Points:421,030 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:00:54 AM	Ignore krucker Report Abuse
	Hydrogen power vehicle sounds good. Until a 18 wheeler hits one and takes out an entire freeway interchange.
recjr Veteran Author Illinois Posts:493 Points:84,270 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:00:37 AM	Ignore recjr Report Abuse
	i have yet to see a station wityh CNG around here! (chicago suburbs)
gasuper Veteran Author Calgary Posts:358 Points:85,215 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 10:00:00 AM	Ignore gasuper Report Abuse
	not enough here to make a difference
bug27 Champion Author Kentucky Posts:1,959 Points:1,172,450 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:59:29 AM	Ignore bug27 Report Abuse
	Local transit systems and school bus systems are good ways to test alternative fuels, since they can operate normally with a single fueling location.
GasholeMI Champion Author Lansing Posts:1,474 Points:113,540 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:58:45 AM	Ignore GasholeMI Report Abuse
	Since distribution will no doubt be a bottleneck with any alternative fuel, this is a great start. By putting all local fleets on alternative fuels, they will always have a local source for fuel (ie their home base). It seems like anyone who has a small territory (like Taxis, buses...) should benefit by going to this type of arraingement. Traveling across the country does pose problems. Way to go Canada.
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:8,355 Points:1,315,405 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:57:35 AM	Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse
	"Alternative fuels gaining ground with consumers" --OK, but where do you "gas up" on CNG? On hydrogen? Actually, there is a station that sells CNG in the San Fernando Valley, on Owensmouth near Sherman Way. But that's ONE station in an area that has over 600,000 people! It's not enough to serve even 1% of cars on the road if they were to switch over!
21597 All-Star Author Colorado Posts:636 Points:207,540 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:55:08 AM	Ignore 21597 Report Abuse
	Why not I would rather give my money to these at home
F250CA Veteran Author Oakland Posts:398 Points:153,835 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:53:25 AM	Ignore F250CA Report Abuse
	Ya, well what are they and were are the stations located? Bio,ethanol, methanol,propane have been around for yrs. they should tap into the politicians as* for all that pure methane they put out
bluebird1 Champion Author Toronto Posts:7,347 Points:1,497,650 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:52:41 AM	Ignore bluebird1 Report Abuse
	Some good news & the infrastructure issue can be addressed by being fleets/buses.
njteech Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,387 Points:1,153,660 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:51:38 AM	Ignore njteech Report Abuse
	Good news
bowler48226 Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,170 Points:317,090 Joined:Sep 2007	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:50:53 AM	Ignore bowler48226 Report Abuse
	The price and flexibility are gaining ground.
GolfTDI03 Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,468 Points:422,635 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:50:24 AM	Ignore GolfTDI03 Report Abuse
	Go CH3, not to forget animal manure as a good source as well for methane.
cableman31 All-Star Author New York Posts:764 Points:428,820 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 10/1/2008 9:50:24 AM	Ignore cableman31 Report Abuse
	These fuels may or may not be the answer, but at least somebody is trying.